During a recent visit to Chicago, Rozina Breen, CEO and Editor-in-Chief of The Bureau of Investigative Journalism (TBIJ) in the UK, sat down with members of the RDLF team to talk about her experiences as a nonprofit leader of color.
Rozina is an award-winning editor who joined TBIJ in 2022 from the BBC. Her vision is to diversify the organization’s storytelling, representation, and sources of revenue.
Through our work with the Leaders of Color Collective (LOCC), we have seen that many nonprofit leaders, especially those of color, face unique hardships caused by a lack of trust and a withholding of resources due to ill-founded discrimination by many traditional philanthropic organizations and government agencies. However, we’ve learned that by being in community with their peers and having frank conversations about shared obstacles, nonprofit leaders of color can build toward collective action and power. We were very curious to hear how Rozina’s experience compared to our Chicago-based grantees and the LOCC initiative.
This interview has been edited for length and clarity.
What are some unique challenges you experience as a leader of color in London?
Rozina: I think the challenges are multifold, and they’re well-documented and researched. If you’re older, female or non-binary, and of color then you have a disadvantage in many ways. There is an internal pressure that you are allowed to make fewer mistakes and you have to prove yourself more. Some might be overachieving in order to feel like they’re doing a good job. Perception is quite a big thing in our world, so how I articulate and present as a leader certainly feels different than a white male colleague in the same space.
Also, I’m older now, so I feel quite strongly that I’m going to lead in a way that I feel is really important, and that may not be traditional. For example, my style tends to be more collegiate, discursive, collaborative. I’m a good decision maker but I won’t always exhibit that like a traditional alpha male might. I think I’ve gotten more comfortable in my skin based on age and I feel more at ease with that. I’m also not scared to talk about things that matter around DEI in the newsroom because it comes from a personal perspective.
Another challenge is you don’t see many people like yourself in the space. Interestingly, if I’m in a forum with some of my colleagues who are white males, those will be the people that other people gravitate to or talk to. And then they might be surprised that actually I’m the CEO. Not that I’m hierarchical, I ironically don’t like hierarchy, but it’s interesting who picks up the conversations with who, especially in more affluent spaces. It’s back to the networks, and there are always networks. So, we learn to walk around the barriers, as we do in life.
Do you experience any lack of trust with your board or current funders? Is it hard to get your foot in the door with new funders?
Rozina: My board is really supportive. They hired me into the role. I remember Elaine Potter, our co-founder, asked me about my life on the first panel interview. She essentially deep-dived into my background, because my parents separated when I was young and we ran away from my grandparents’ home to live with my mom. She was really curious about that, and it opened the door for self-expression—to be able to feel that your history is part of your story, and your adversities and challenges as well. And so, they had really backed my ideas. I wanted to diversify our storytelling, to democratize the space of investigative journalism. I thought that was a really important thing to do, and they recruited me on that basis. I don’t feel I have to get around other barriers such as trust or presentation or communication. Interestingly, one person on our board would say I need to be more direct sometimes, and I think that goes back to style.
As for current funders, I really enjoy the relationship and the conversations with them. Logan [RDLF] is a very special foundation because it’s a place that inspires, celebrates, and requires difference, and I feel I can be my authentic self in that sort of space. With other new funders, it really depends. Some funders are really interested in our story and the work that we’re trying to do, which is around social good. You lean toward those organizations who have a similar remit or lens. Others are slightly more arms-length and conservative, and that’s fine, but you have to present in a different way. You work to the audience, really. And back to your first question, what are the barriers—sometimes I feel that maybe they would be having a different conversation if I wasn’t female, brown, or working class. But you have to learn to adapt in order to keep the organization going. And everybody in a leadership position has to adapt to meet their audience’s needs, so that is sort of a shared challenge.
It can be lonely at the top—do you have a network you’re able to lean on?
Rozina: It’s definitely lonely, and there are a lot of pressures in any leadership role. It’s easy to feel like the load is really heavy because you care for the people and you care for the output. You’re there as a collective. Newsrooms are human places and we all feel things. So, there is quite a heavy weight on our shoulders, and networks are really important.
I’ve learned to build a group of people, both professional and in my personal life, who are my go-to’s. Some of those are leaders in journalism that I go to for advice on issues or challenges, to understand how they did something or to have a trusted conversation. There are a few board members as well, and we have an advisory group that has capabilities we don’t have in the organization. Having people who have excelled in their field from whichever discipline are really good go-to people.
In my personal life, having a network of people who really know me is also really important. My husband is one of those. He’s a scientist by discipline and he knows me really well. He may not always say what I want him to say, but he’ll have a very rational, pragmatic approach. And then I have three children in their twenties. They are a really good litmus test for me, especially with the next generation. Sometimes I’ll say, I have this dilemma that I’m wrestling with, and they will tell me what my instinct is telling me in a way that a professional in the field might not. Our newsroom is quite young and we need to build trust with younger people. Public institutions, including some media organizations and newsrooms, are really losing the public trust. So, I’m not saying I’ll go to my kids and say what should I do, but they are really thoughtful young adults who are all taking different pathways in life. They present me with a different perspective on some of those challenges, and in the mix, that is a really valuable thing.
What sort of resources would have been helpful for you when you first started out as a leader of color, or would be helpful for you now?
Rozina: When I started out as a leader of color, I was really lucky. Katie Lloyd launched a program for women in leadership at BBC News. It was transformational. She would get really eminent speakers to have round tables where we learned about profile building, networking. I remember one of the speakers we had was Heather Rabbatts, who was the first woman and person of color on the Board of the Football Association. Her advice was to jump off the cliff; i.e. don’t just tread water in your careers, go where you thrive. It was a collection of these golden nuggets of advice that really spoke to you. I think that was really transformational in terms of the building blocks for resilience, networks, having your gang, looking for help out there.
The rest was more around curiosity. So, speaking to people whose value and judgement really resonated. Back again to your first question—if you feel different, you work harder in order to convince people that you can do it. So, the support network is much more around knowing what makes you good, as well as critical feedback. I remember reading somewhere that, if you ask trusted people in your network three words to describe you, you start to build a portfolio. This is who I am, what I’m about, how I’m perceived. Having building blocks of what it means personally to be a leader, how you really want to lead, how you want people to feel under your leadership—those are the things that I wish I had known way back.
Also, I always feel like I’m catching up with my career. I’m in my 50’s now, but I feel that there is so much more to do. I wish that maybe twenty years ago I’d had the confidence to go for things rather than waiting for the tap on the shoulder (which were, again, really instrumental moments in my career). So, I think my advice for the next generation is, don’t feel that you’ve reached the limit in whatever role you’re in. I wouldn’t say I would have made different choices, but I would have shot for the moon. And now I suppose maybe I’m going for some stars before I retire when I’m 80.
What do you think needs to change in the nonprofit journalism sphere?
Rozina: Firstly, all newsrooms need to be really inclusive. Representation matters at all levels of an organization. Where the decision making happens is really crucial, and giving power to people at every level is also really important.
Also, I suppose what I find uncomfortable in the nonprofit world is having to ask people for money. I come from a single parent immigrant household where my mom had three jobs so we could have piano lessons and go on school trips. And so, what I really find uncomfortable is being in a world where I have to… I mean, beg is quite a strong word, but ultimately, it’s going to people with money to survive. Some people would say philanthropy isn’t a business model, but it is a model. We are hugely grateful for all our philanthropists and people who support our world, and when you have a trusted relationship like with the Logan Foundation it feels really equitable and conversational and meaningful. With other organizations it feels a bit like going back to default and being that person in need again. That doesn’t feel particularly healthy. It brings me back to feeling like I don’t have power. And it’s not about single power, it’s about my collective power with my team. We don’t have power and yet we’ve got so much to achieve. With nonprofits, I can’t see how that will ever change.
Also, I think there needs to be an understanding at the political level and high decision-making level that independent nonprofit newsrooms are a valuable asset in the ecology of truth and trust and fighting for transparency. We say that journalism is a bedrock of a functioning democracy. Independent newsrooms absolutely play their place. In terms of the industry, we need a more level playing field with legacy newsrooms.
Thank you so much, I think that was very valuable.
Rozina: It felt like therapy, honestly, to even have the space for those conversations. Because you don’t ordinarily. I’ve had a couple of conversations with peers in the industry. Being able to say, oh wow, you also experience this, or it’s not just me—sharing experiences and having people give you tools to navigate that is really important.